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Published - Tuesday, July 01, 2008

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Ho-Chunk tribe misses gambling money payment

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Lee Newspapers

The Ho-Chunk tribe missed an initial budget deadline Monday to pay an estimated $72 million in gambling money that state officials are counting on to help balance an already stressed state budget.

It's now been more than two years since the tribe, locked in a legal battle with the state over its gambling compact, has made any of the disputed payments on its casino operations.

The lingering dispute raises the question of whether the state will receive nearly $100 million in estimated payments expected by June 2009 in time to prevent a gaping hole in a budget that could force lawmakers to raise taxes, cut services or borrow money to make up the difference.

The missed deadline — Monday was the end of the first fiscal year of the current two-year budget — comes a little over a month after state officials approved a $527 million budget fix to cover a shortfall caused by the souring economy.

"We're just anticipating that it will be paid by them," said Linda Barth, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Administration. "We will try as outlined in the (gambling) compact to collect the money."

The dispute revolves around money that the state is seeking under a gambling compact Gov. Jim Doyle signed with the tribe in 2003 giving the Ho-Chunk perpetual gambling rights and additional games in exchange for much larger payments to the state. A state Supreme Court decision invalidated a similar compact with another tribe in 2004.

Ho-Chunk officials have said that, because of the court decision, the tribe doesn't owe the amount the state is seeking but is willing to negotiate a new gambling compact.

David Greendeer, Ho-Chunk executive administration officer, told the tribal newspaper Hocak Worak the nation does have the funds to pay any money due the state. He said the dispute is about the Nation fighting for its sovereignty. Greendeer said it's important that the tribe protect and take care of its own people by working out the best deal possible.

When they put together the state's 2007-2009 budget last fall, Doyle and lawmakers figured they would receive $72 million from the Ho-Chunk tribe by Monday and the nearly $100 million by the end of the budget in June 2009.

The disputed payments are estimates of what state officials expect the tribe to owe based on a percentage of its casino business. The Ho-Chunk tribe's gambling operations include Majestic Pines Casino in Black River Falls.

The state is also still in negotiations with the Lac du Flambeau Band of Lake Superior Chippewa over payments officials believe the state is owed, Barth said.

(John Kozlowicz of the Hocak Worak contributed to this story.)
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WOW from Colorado wrote on Aug 11, 2008 8:57 PM:

" WOW from Colorado and wow - 2 different people. Just to clarify. I personally enjoy bill pears participation in these blogs. In fact I look forward to reading what he has to add every week. "

bill pear wrote on Jul 16, 2008 4:03 PM:

" i like to hang out at wal mart, and give my advise to anyone who will listen. "

tribal member too wrote on Jul 16, 2008 2:20 PM:

" Joe Payer was a Ho chunk gra elder back in the day...he was known to be quite the yarn spinner... so when people thought you were BS'ing them they would call you Joe Payer....when he passed that turned into Bill Payer, the name of his oldest living boy, which now has turned into " 'kay Bill".... the fact that the poster doesn't even know how to spell Payer lends me to discount their posting...the gaming commision and the TLW are two separate beings but the TLW lobbyists, now they got pull.... calling someone jealous doesn't further the argument one way or the other... don't respond to posts that have no facts or make no sense "

AGREE WOW wrote on Jul 14, 2008 12:15 PM:

" Your right he must think think someone buys that bs. "

wow wrote on Jul 13, 2008 11:18 AM:

" Who is this Bill Pear? Every article that comes up he has a comment, he sounds like an idiot!! "

Concerned about taxes wrote on Jul 12, 2008 5:47 AM:

" The Winnebagos (aka Hochunkgra) have gotten greedy beyond belief!! They complain about the Chippewa building a casino in Beliot and expect Wisconsinites to foot thier TAXES. I say give the Chippewa thier casino because at least They Pay Thier TAXES,,,Unlike the Winnebago who are playing Wisconsinites as FOOLS "

bill pear wrote on Jul 11, 2008 4:01 PM:

" the state wants to tax the tribes indirectly which the tribes will have to push on to their customers so the tribes are not paying the tax the people who gamble are. the tavern league is afforder one of the lowest rates of taxation on their sales and yet alcohol kills, destroys families and homes yet people still think attacking the tribes for trying to help the state with lowering poverty rates provide jobs, pay taxes and this has been going on for a few years now, compare how many people gaming has hurt, killed, healthcare costs, destroyed lives, and compare this to the cost of the tavern industry. which industry hurts the state more? the tribe abides by all local, state, tribal, and federal laws, if you want to cry about being treated unfairly, leave. we r here to stay we are here to make it a better place so why do people still not see the value the tribes bring to the state? is it ignorance? is it lazyness? read, learn the laws. "

observer wrote on Jul 11, 2008 10:36 AM:

" wow.....i can't believe some of the things I am reading. Bill Pear, I can't believe that you would go so low as to put a description on the way wisconsinites are. You are really ignorant and if you left your comfort zone and took a look at the world maybe you would see that it is really not that bad here. I am not going to defend the attitudes in Black River Falls, but it is not like that all over wisconsin. As far as the commment by you and HoChunk Member about jealousy.......I really don't think that anyone that is not HoChunk is jealous. I don't think non Ho Chunks want to deal with the crazy problems (alcholism, drugs, etc) that the tribe deals with as a nation. Non Ho Chunks have enough problems as it is...everyone does. The only thing I pray for is that the Ho Chunk Nation gets a grip on their people and starts educating them more on how to manage money, alcholism, etc. Don't deny that there is a problem. The majority of the jail is Ho-Chunk. Please start doing the right thing. As far as this money to the state and everything. We all know how corrupt government is, so I don't believe any governments story on this one. Someone will get the raw end of the deal. They always do. "

tribal member too wrote on Jul 10, 2008 3:33 PM:

" the tribe answers to the federal entities....the gaming act that gives the right of class three gaming to the tribe is the same act that puts lottery tickets in the hands of those who want it....that act says the state must barter in good faith to reach a compact...this is so the state can make money too....fair enough...but the state is not using good faith..... the feds realize this and rather than come in and spank the state they want the state and tribe to come to an agreement..... as others have said when the state threw out the Doyle compact they threw out the whole compact ........I have good friends who own taverns and on the weeks when sales are slow they depend on the income from their video gaming...you know the ones that are "for entertainment only"....legalize those units for bar owners and some of the trouble goes away...the state gets a percentage, the machine owners get a percentage, and the bar owners get to pay taxes on very little income...as opposed to the 50/50 or sometimes 60/40 split they (the bar owners) make now....the tribe has the money in an escrow acct as the state knows because they already tried to come and steal it 3 years ago....thankfully a bank employee called the tribe before the boneheads at the Jackson Co Bank gave it to the state from intimidation...if the state would ratify a fair compact they would get the money...notice I didn't write their money.... "

e pluribus unum wrote on Jul 10, 2008 6:36 AM:

" Until we honor our Constitution's direction that "all men are created equal" , and, instead, pretend that some US citizens are "more equal" and thus deserving of special race-based privileges,we will continue to see tribal groups pitted against the taxpayers.
The state has the power of taxation and can imprison those who fail to pay. They have no such power over their own citizens who claim tribal identity as well as state citizenship. This has got to end before the whole country is Balkanized into thousands and thousands of groups answerable to no one but themselves. "

WOW in Colorado wrote on Jul 9, 2008 5:37 AM:

" To Resulting..........
Do people read what they are submitting before they actually hit the 'post comment'?? I mean really, if you just take a moment to stop and read over what you have typed up BEFORE actually submitting...maybe you wouldn't come across as so ignorant! "SHUT DOWN THE CASINO" I don't even live there but comments like this make whoever posted it look,...lets just say...not too bright!!! "

its a doyle deal wrote on Jul 8, 2008 11:28 PM:

" Messed up and misleading from the start. If anyone thinks that any deals that man makes are for the good of our State they are totally mistaken. He has messed up Wisconsin in a very bad way. Boy do I miss Tommy Thompson. "

SIM wrote on Jul 7, 2008 4:37 PM:

" This article's title is a joke. The title of the story is very misleading. The truth is the compact agreement between the State and the Ho-Chunk was invalidated due to terms in that agreement, and the state is to blame for that invalidation after state government argued with itself and one side of the government didnt like their counterparts work. In other words, if the compact (agreement) was invalidated, as what Panzer did, it was no good anymore, as was the terms for a larger payment to the state. So for the State to collect on a debt that was never legally agreed to is a joke. This particular article also fails to mention that the Ho-Chunk already paid 30 Million to the state as a gesture of good faith in future negotiations. The State needs to quit bickering with itself and come to the table with some substance and make a real agreement. Pointing fingers at the Ho-Chunk for something they dont owe is basically slander, perpetuated by the press to sell their newspapers and TV commercials. It is all about $. Sorry haters but youll have to find another reason to blow off your steam. "

bill pear wrote on Jul 7, 2008 2:02 PM:

" jealous, racist, cowardace, same old wisconsin attitude. "

HoChunk Member wrote on Jul 7, 2008 10:52 AM:

" Jealousy. And that's all I'm going to say. "

Native to Resulting Fed Up wrote on Jul 7, 2008 9:30 AM:

" Sooo, your saying that the tribe should just shut down.. sending all of the nations members back into poverty, just where you want us???, so we cannot support our selves, educate ourselves? etc, etc....Oh an buy our alcohol..... well got news for you. ANY alcoholic, white or otherwise WILL FIND THE ALCOLHOL if they want it per cap or not. I for one work my 40 hours a week, get my per cap and chose... like you and everyone else what to do with MY MONEY!!!!!, I put clothes on my kids , food on the table and gas in my car so I can return on Monday to work my 40. Your just ticked because your family didnt endure people like you all thier lives and finally get compensated for it..... cry me a river, AGAIN WE ARE HERE TO STAY>>>> the STATE of WISCONSIN better COWBOY UP............... "

still fed up wrote on Jul 6, 2008 8:25 PM:

" ok Yeah how much did the tribe give for the sewer and water? I know the state pays a a lot every year. The tribe does not have to abide by fair labor standards either so if they want to put a non-native person out of a job and hire some native they can with no reason.(Double standards) The tribe has never given me a thing!!!!! and I would not accept it if they tried!!! No one should have to put up with idiot tribal politics to keep a job. No one should have to kiss up to keep it. I hear some do. I feel the tribe is a joke and the casino's should be shut down if they don't pay their bills. They should have to pay money to help idiots who go there when they become in debt for gambling addiction. Shut the casino's down!!!! or pay up!!!! "

Resulting............ wrote on Jul 6, 2008 4:03 PM:

" "Greendeer said it's important that the tribe protect and take care of its own people by working out the best deal possible."

What that means is more money for per-cap checks, resulting in more intoxicated natives, resulting in greater costs to the Jackson County tax payers, ie. EMS, law enforcement, hospital, etc.

So if the State of WI shuts down the Casino for back payments, the public (white & native) can't drop money into the casino machines, the Ho-Chunk dosen't receive any revenue resulting in less money for per-cap checks, resulting in fewer intoxicated natives, resulting in less money being spent for the above services to include traffice accidents, deaths, etc.
It's clear to me, SHUT DOWN THE CASINO, everybody will benifit. "

to bill wrote on Jul 6, 2008 1:31 AM:

" of course its the tavern league...yah i know that, we all know that, but my point...lets see... lets shut down the casino, ok yeah thats a good well thought out plan. whatever. and i dont remember the tribe buying anybody..it was doyle who made the crooked deal in the first place. why should the tribe honour something that the state supreme court ruled as "bogus" "

Vegas wrote on Jul 5, 2008 10:57 AM:

" Vegas seems to collect their taxes.Let anyone build a casino and lets see how that works.Black River did not die when the iron mine closed.The lose of a casino won't kill it either. "

bill pear wrote on Jul 5, 2008 1:45 AM:

" its already allowed throughout the state and has a gaming commission, its called the wisconsin tavern league you doofis. "

to fed up wrote on Jul 4, 2008 11:58 PM:

" ok lets see, how much money does the tribe give to the community? how much did brockways water and sewer cost that the tribe helped to pay for? how many people do they employ? yes they employ white people too. so you know that if everyone had a casino there would be no way to actually regulate it. sure it sounds good in theory, but actually regualting everyone who has a slot machine would be impossible. then where would all the people go who are employed by the casino? on unemplyment thats where then you, fed up, would be paying taxes which will then be used to pay the unemplyment for the hundreds of residents who are now out of a job. then what, then black river falls will be like neillsville- no offense neillsville- there will be no jobs, people will move away hundreds of houses will be for sale with no sales in sight...then what? "

White wrote on Jul 4, 2008 7:45 AM:

" Agreed 100 percent Native. Our state government wants to make the rules and then change them... THEN when the rules change, they want what the original deal (THEIR part of the original deal that is). This is a streightforward case of "gimme and !@#$ you. "

Fed up with the tribe wrote on Jul 3, 2008 8:32 PM:

" We should shut the tribe casino's down. Doyle was being crooked after getting bought by the tribe. Open it to everyone like private owners and have a state gaming commission to regulate gambling. "

Native wrote on Jul 2, 2008 9:22 AM:

" Just maybe the State Officials that seem to think the Nation owes them anything should have a chat with the ones who put a stop to Gov. Doyles agreement with the Nation in the first place (panzer-guard??). Hind site is always 20/20. The State of Wisconsin could be so much further ahead if they would just support the agreement, we are here to stay this time! "


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